सरकारी जग्गा अतिक्रमण गर्नेलाई ठाडै कारबाही गर्छौंः मन्त्री अर्यालय (अन्तर्वार्ता)

वर्तमान नेपाली राजनीतिमा आफूलाई फरक रूपमा प्रस्तुत गर्न सफल नेत्री हुनुहुन्छ भूमि व्यवस्था, सहकारी तथा गरिबी निवारण मन्त्री पद्माकुमारी अर्याल । अध्यक्ष कार्यकारी हुने व्यवस्था भएपछि पार्टीको जिल्ला कमिटीको अध्यक्ष हुने उहाँ एकमात्र पहिलो महिला नेतृ हुनुहुन्छ । यसअघि उहाँले स्वास्थ्य राज्यमन्त्रीको जिम्मेवारी सम्हाल्नुभएको थियो भने गत साउनदेखि उहाँले भूमि व्यवस्था, सहकारी तथा गरिबी निवारण मन्त्रालयको जिम्मेवारी सम्हाल्नुभएको हो । उहाँ नेपाल कम्युनिस्ट पार्टी (नेकपा) की केन्द्रीय सदस्य हुनुहुन्छ । उहाँ स्याङ्जा क्षेत्र नं. २ बाट निर्वाचित हुनुभएको हो । नेपाल सरकारका भूमि व्यवस्था, सहकारी तथा गरिबी निवारण मन्त्री पद्माकुमारी अर्यालसँग गोरखापत्र दैनिकका लागि पत्रकार सविता शर्माले गर्नुभएको कुराकानी : 

भूमि व्यवस्था, सहकारी तथा गरिबी निवारण मन्त्रालयका प्रमुख प्राथमिकताहरू के के हुन् ?
– नीतिगत कामलाई नै हामीले पहिलो प्राथमिकतामा राखेका छौँ । खास गरेर भूमि व्यवस्थासँग जोडिएका समस्याको समाधान कसरी गर्न सकिन्छ भन्नेमा केन्द्रित रहेर नीतिगत केही कामहरू गर्नै पर्नेछ । भूमि ऐन संशोधन नगरेर काम गर्न सकिने अवस्था छैन । हिजोको कानूनले अहिले काम गर्न सक्ने अवस्था नभएको हुँदा अहिलेको समस्या सम्बोधन हुने गरी कानून र नीतिको तर्जुमा र संशोधनलाई पहिलो प्राथमिकतामा राखेका हौँ ।

तत्कालचाहिँ भूमि ऐन र भूउपयोग नीति बनाउनमा बढी केन्द्रित भएका छौँ । त्यसैगरी संविधानको मौलिक हकमा भएका व्यवस्थालाई कार्यान्वयन गर्ने कानून निर्माण र समग्र भूमि व्यवस्थालाई व्यवस्थित र यससँग जोडिएका समस्याको समाधानका निम्ति कुन हिसाबबाट जान सकिन्छ भनेर छलफलको क्रममा छौँ । गरिबी ऐन बनाउनुप¥यो, मन्त्रालयसँग सहकारी जोडिएकोले सहकारी नियमावली बनाउँदैछौं । सहकारी ऐन त आयो त्यसमा केही समस्याहरू देखिएका छन् त्यसलाई समाधान हुने गरी नियमावली बनाउनुप¥यो । सहकारीहरू स्थानीय तहमा हस्तान्तरण भएका छन् । स्थानीय तहमा हस्तान्तरण भइसकेपछि कसरी परिचालन गर्ने ? सहकारीलाई मार्गनिर्देश गर्ने खालको नियमावली बनाउँदैछौँ ।

मुक्त कमैया र हलिया पुनःस्थापनाको कुरा पटकपटक बल्झिरहन्छ, यो समस्या समाधानका लागि केही ठोस कार्ययोजना बनाउनुभएको छ ?
– यसै वर्ष मुक्त हलिया र कमैया पुनःस्थापना अझै बाँकी छ भन्ने अवस्था नरहने गरी काम सम्पन्न भएको घोषणा गर्दैछौं । यसका लागि फिल्डमै पुग्छौं, जिल्ला प्रशासन कार्यालयले त्यसको समन्वय गर्छ । स्थानीय पालिका, मुक्त हलिया र मुक्त कमैयाका अभियन्ताहरू सबैको सहयोग र समन्वयमा यकिन भएका जतिको पुनःस्थापना टुङ्ग्याउने ढङ्ले अगाडि बढिसकेका छौं । पहिचान भएका जतिको यो वर्षभित्र समाधान गरेर सक्छौं । हिजो पहिचान गर्दा केही बाँकी रहे भन्ने पनि आएको छ त्यसको पनि पहिचान गर्छौं ।

सरकारको राष्ट्रिय लक्ष्यमा सुशासन पनि जोडिएको छ तर मालपोत र नापी कार्यालयमा हुने व्यवहारबाट हैरानी व्यहोर्नुपरेको जनगुनासो व्यापक छ । यसलाई कसरी सम्बोधन गर्दै हुनुहुन्छ ?
– ती कार्यालयहरू सुधार गरौं भनेर सुधारको अभियान शुरु गरेका छौं, सुधारको अभियानअन्तर्गत हामीले ११ बुँदे परिपत्र पनि ग¥यौं । धेरै गुनासो सुशासनको छ । बिगिँ्रदै गरेको मालपोत र नापीको छविलाई सुधार्न, सुशासन कायम गर्न र भ्रष्टाचारमुक्त मालपोत र नापी घोषणा गर्न हामीले केही अभियान चलाएका हौं । त्यो अभियानबाट तेस्रो पक्षको प्रभावलाई कमजोर बनायौं र लेखापढी व्यवसायीहरू मालपोत र नापी कार्यालयमा परिचयपत्रका साथ प्रवेश गर्न पाउने व्यवस्था ग¥यौं । लेखापढी व्यवसायीहरूको कार्यालय मालपोत र नापीको परिसरभन्दा बाहिर मात्र सञ्चालन गर्न पाउने व्यवस्था ग¥यौं ।

फारामको सरलीकृत गर्दै नाङ्लाको फारामलाई एफो साइजमा ल्यायौं । शुरु पनि भयो, एक महिना जति काम भएको थियो अहिले फेरि लेखापढी व्यवसायीले रोक्नुभएको छ । लेखापढी व्यवसायी यसलाई रोक्न अदालत पुग्नुभयो, अदालतले स्टे गरेको छ । मालपोतको क्रान्ति ल्याउने अभियान नै हो त्यो । सुशासन र सेवाग्राहीलाई सुविधा हुने हिसाबले क्रान्ति नै हुने काम हो । जनतालाई सुविधा हुने ठाउँमा सम्मानित अदालत जनताको पक्षमा हुनुप¥यो । सुधार, सुशासन र भ्रष्टाचारका विरुद्धमा सम्मानित अदालत जनताको पक्षमा उभिन्छ भन्ने मलाई विश्वास छ । जनतालाई सुविधा हुने गरी हामीले शुद्धताको अभियान थालेका हौं यसबाट सामान्य मान्छेले पनि आफैंले भर्न सक्ने फर्म बनाएका थियौं ।

भूमि प्रशासनमा सुशासन ल्याउनका लागि कस्ता योजना र आधारहरू तय गर्नुभएको छ ?
– भूमि प्रशासनमा सुशासन कायम गर्ने प्रमुख आधार भनेको प्रविधिको प्रयोग नै हो । सिस्टमबाट नै सुशासन कायम गर्ने उद्देश्य हो । देशभर १३१ वटा नापी र मालपोत कार्यालय रहेका छन्, त्यसमध्ये १०८ वटामा यो वर्ष अनलाइन सेवा विस्तार गर्ने कार्यक्रम रहेको छ, जसअन्तर्गत ४२ वटा मालपोत र नापीमा अनलाइन सेवा शुरु गरिसकेका छौं । अब सबैतिर अनलाइनमा जाने र सिस्टम नै अनलाइनमा हाल्ने तयारी पनि भइरहेको छ, आइटीवेशमै जान लागेका छौं । शुरुवात त गरेका छौं, केही गुनासा बाँकी छन्, त्यसको कारण खोजी गर्दैछु । प्राविधिक हिसाबले हो भने प्राविधिक किसिमले र कर्मचारीको स्कीलको कुरा हो भने उनीहरूलाई दक्ष बनाउन अगाडि बढेका छौं । यसबाट कागजपत्र सुरक्षित हुनुकासाथै जनतालाई सजिलो र सुशासनमा पनि टेवा पुग्छ ।

राज्यको सम्पत्ति हडप्ने, अतिक्रमण गर्ने, एउटा प्रयोजन भनेर अर्को प्रयोजनमा उपयोग गर्ने खालको काम भइरहेको छ ,यसलाई रोक्न कस्तो प्रयास गर्दै हुनुहुन्छ ?
– यस सन्दर्भमा भएका गतिविधिहरू हामीले नियालिरहेका छौं । सार्वजनिक जग्गा अतिक्रमण गर्ने क्रम बढिराछ, गुठी जग्गामा पनि समस्या देखिएको छ । हामी प्राधिकरण बनाएर गुठीलाई व्यवस्थित गर्ने सोचमा छौं । जहाँ जहाँ अतिक्रमण भएको छ स्थानीय तहको सहयोगबाट तुरुन्तै कारबाही गरेर फिर्ता गराउने र सीधै खारेज गरिदिन्छौं । त्यसलाई पनि कानूनमा समावेश गरी व्यवहारमा कार्यान्वयन हुने गरी जाँदैछौं । सरकारी जग्गा अतिक्रमण गर्नेलाई हामी ठाडै कारबाही गर्छौं । सरकारको अनुमति र स्वीकृतीबेगर जुनसुकै प्रयोजनमा पनि सरकारी जग्गा प्रयोग गर्न पाइँदैन ।

गैर सुकुम्बासीले पूर्जा पाए वास्तविक सुकुम्बासी जस्ताको तस्तै भन्ने गुनासा छन्, तपाईं फेरि सुकम्बासी आयोग गठन गर्ने तयारीमा हुनुहुन्छ । आयोगबाट अहिलेसम्म समस्या समाधान हुन सकेनन्, अब कसरी यसको हल गर्नुहुन्छ ?
– सुकुम्बासी आयोग जरुरी छ । फिल्डमै गएर पुर्जा दिनसक्ने खालको अधिकारसम्पन्न शक्तिशाली आयोग बनाउनुपर्छ । सुकुम्बासीको समस्या हामी छिटै समाधान गर्छौं । तलका मान्छेहरू अलि जवाफदेही बन्ने हो भने गैर सुकुम्बासीहरू छिर्ने भन्ने सम्भावना रहँँदैन । को मान्छे कहिले आयो, बस्यो त्यसको जमिन कति छ भन्ने छिमेकीलाई थाहा हुन्छ नि । समुदाय र बस्ती नै वेइमान बन्यो भने त केही लाग्दैन । गैर सुकुम्बासीलाई सुकुम्बासीको पूर्जा दिने भन्ने कुरै आउँदैन ।

पहिलेका आयोग क्षणिक मात्रै भए । चार वर्षसम्म काम गर्न सक्ने आयोग बनाउन सक्यौं भने समग्र भूिम व्यवस्थालाई व्यवस्थित गर्न सकिन्छ । नारा मात्र लाग्यो तर अहिलेसम्म समस्या समाधान हुन सकेन । त्यसैले वैज्ञानिक हिसाबले भूमिको व्यवस्थापन कसरी गर्ने भन्ने छलफल गर्दैछौं । समस्याको पहिचान गरेका छौं, बुझेका छौं । त्यसलाई आयोग बनाउने र स्थानीय तहको सहयोग लिएर भूमिसँग जोडिएका समस्या समाधान गर्ने हाम्रो उद्देश्य हो । खास गरेर सुकुम्बासी र अव्यवस्थित बसोबास, द्वैध स्वामित्वको अन्त्य गर्दै भूमिसँग जोडिएको समस्यालाई पाँच वर्षभित्र समाधान गर्ने गरी सरकार अगाडि बढेको छ ।

घर/घडेरीको नाममा उत्पादनमूलक जग्गा खण्डीकरण सकिन लागे उत्पादनमूलक जग्गाको चकलाबन्दी गर्ने कुरा पनि उठेको थियो, त्यो कहाँ अड्केको छ ?
– अहिले हामी भूउपयोगको नीति बनाउँदैछौं । यो नीतिअन्तर्गत जमिनको वर्गीकरण गरिन्छ । विकास गर्ने हो भने हामीले वैज्ञानिक ढङ्गले भूमिको वर्गीकरण गर्नैपर्छ । केही समय लाग्ला तर यसका लागि पुनः नापी पनि गर्नुपर्छ । भूउपयोगको नीतिलाई राम्रोसँग लागू गर्ने हो भने चक्लाबन्दी गर्नुपर्ने देखिन्छ । भूउपयोग नीतिबाट हाम्रो आवास क्षेत्र कुन हो ? खेतीयोग्य क्षेत्र कुन हो ? आद्यौगिक क्षेत्र कुन हो ? हाम्रो पर्यटकीय क्षेत्र कुन हो ? हाम्रो खोला र वन क्षेत्र कुन हो ? हामीले छुट्याउन खोजेको हौं ।

सरकारले भूउपयोगको नीति बनाएर खेतीयोग्य जमिनलाई खण्डीकरण गर्न नदिन तराईमा चक्लाबन्दी गर्न आवश्यक छ । चक्लाबन्दी गरियो भने बस्ती पनि त्यहीअनुसार बस्छ । खेतीयोग्य जमिन पनि छुट्टिन्छ औद्योगिक क्षेत्र पनि छुट्टिन्छ । खेतीयोग्य जमिन जोगाएर जग्गाको कित्ताकाटका लागि पनि भरपर्दो, विश्वसनीय र गुणस्तरीय कम्पनीहरूले मात्र गर्न पाउने बनाउन छलफलमा छौं ।

वास्तविक गरिबले नै गरिबीको परिचयपत्र पाउने वातावरण कसरी बनाउनुहुन्छ ?
– मकहाँ पनि गुनासो आएको छ । यहाँबाट त को धनी को गरिब हामीले देख्दैनौं नि । देख्ने भनेको मन्त्रालयले बनाएको फम्र्याटमा हो, जे भो त्यही आधारमा मन्त्रालयले यो गरिब हो कि होइन भनेर छुट्याउने हो । हिजो कसैले बेइमानी ग¥यो त्यसैले धनी पनि गरिबको सूचीमा देखिए । स्थानीय तहले यो गरिब होइन गरिबको सूचीमा आयो भनेर प्रमाणसहित लेखेर पठाएपछि ठाडै खारेज गरिदिन्छौं । लक्ष्यित समूहले प्रयोग गर्नुपर्छ अरुले प्रयोग गर्न पाउँदैन । पहिचान गरेका ठाउँहरूमा गरिबी निवारणका निम्ति सहकारी मोडेलमा जहाँ जे सम्भावना छ त्यो अनुसार पाइलट कार्यक्रमहरू सञ्चालन गर्छौंं ।

सहकारी क्षेत्र सुदृढीकरणका लागि के गर्दै हुनुहुन्छ ?
– सहकारी नियमावली निर्माण गर्दैछौं । यो मुलुकमा ३४ हजार सहकारी छन्, कति आफ्नो औचित्य पष्टि गर्न नसक्ने खालका पनि छन् भने केही उत्पादनशील पनि छन् । औचित्य पुष्टि गर्न नसक्ने खालका सहकारीहरूलाई मर्ज गर्दैछौं । संस्थाको रूपमा मात्र राख्न जरुरी छैन । सीमित क्षेत्र र भूगोलमा केन्द्रित भएर काम गर्नसक्ने र परिणाम दिने गरी काम गरून् भन्ने ढङ्गले मर्ज गर्ने र उनीहरूको हैसियतअनुसारको कार्यक्षेत्र कायम गर्न लगाउने तयारी हो । उत्पादनमा सामेल भएका सहकारीको छनोट गरी उनीहरूको क्षमता वृद्धि गर्दैछौं ।

नेपालको नक्सा त्रुटिपूर्ण छ भन्ने आयो, यो कसको कमजोरी हो ?
–नेपालको नक्सा छाप्ने अधिकार हाम्रो मन्त्रालयअन्तर्गतको नापी विभागलाई मात्रै छ । नापी विभागले छापेर प्रमाणित गरेको नक्सा मात्रै आधिकारिक नक्सा हो । अहिले नक्सा भारतलगायत अन्यत्र पनि छापिन्छ । दोस्रो कुरा अन्त छापिएका नक्सा गुगलमा छ । गुगलबाट झिक्ने प्रयोग गर्ने गर्दा त्यस्तो त्रुटिपूर्ण नक्साको प्रयोग भएको हो । नापी विभागले छापेको र प्रमाणित गरेको नक्सा त्रुटिपूर्ण छैन । जति पनि त्रुटिपूर्ण नक्सा प्रयोग गरिएको छ ती प्रयोग गरिएका त्रुटिपूर्ण नक्सा हटाउने अभियानमा हामी छौं । त्यो खालको निर्देशन हामीले सरकारी कार्यालयमा गरिसकेका छौं । अब हामी आधिकारिक नक्सा स्थापित गर्नको निम्ति नापी विभागबाट ठूलो सङ्ख्यामा नक्सा छपाउँदैछौं । सबै सरकारी कार्यालयमा नापी विभागबाट छापिएका नक्सा पठाउँछौं र आधिकारिक नक्सालाई स्थापित गर्छौं ।

भूउपयोग परियोजनाले के कस्तो विषयको सम्बोधन गर्छ ?
– भूउपयोगअन्तर्गत सिमानादेखि लिएर अन्य सबै खालको र हिजो छुट भएकाहरू पनि नापनक्सा गरिन्छ । हाम्रो आवश्यकता पुनः नापी हो । पटक÷पटक नापी भएकोले कसैको जग्गा मिल्दैन, कसैको नक्सा मिल्दैन, धेरै समस्या देखिएको छ । अनेक खालको समस्या आएको छ । तराईतिर खोलालाई सिमाना मानिएको थियो यसले पनि समस्या सिर्जना भएको छ । यो सबैलाई सम्बोधन गर्न खोज्दैंछौं ।

स्याटेलाइट इमेज खिच्नका लागि चिन सरकारसँग सहयोग लिएर त्यसको निशुल्क प्रयोग गर्न सक्ने व्यवस्था मिलाउन लागेका छौं । गाउँपालिका, शहरी विकास मन्त्रालय, भूिम व्यवस्था मन्त्रालय, भौतिक योजना मन्त्रालयले यसको प्रयोग गर्न सक्छन् । यसका लागि शुल्क तिरिरहनु पर्दैन । पहिले बेग्ला बेग्लै शुल्क तिर्नुपथ्र्यो, यसबाट राज्यलाई अरबौ फाइदा पुग्नेछ । नापी विभागमार्फत प्रदेश, पालिका, खोला, सबैको नापनक्सा गर्ने परियोजना हो । पहिलेको जग्गा धनीपूर्जा निकै क्षतविक्षत अवस्थामा छन् । त्यो त जनताको सम्पत्ति हो । त्यसको रक्षा गर्ने दायित्व सरकारको हो । त्यसैले पुराना कागजपत्रलाई स्क्यानिङ गरेर संरक्षण गर्ने काममा पनि लागेका छौं ।

जमिन बाँझो राख्न नपाइने विषयमा मन्त्रालयले केही निर्णय गर्दैछ कि ?
– हामी छलफलमा छौं, जमिन बाँझो राख्न नपाउने भन्ने गरी गयौं भने उत्पादन पनि हुन्छ । उत्पादनसँग समृिद्ध जोडिन्छ । उत्पानमूलक कामै नगर्ने, जमिन बाँझै राख्ने र समृद्धिको भाषण मात्रै गरेर त समृद्ध भइदैन । जे भने पनि हाम्रो मुलुकको मुख्य आधार कृषि नै हो । हामी सामूहिकता र सहकारीतामा गएर उत्पादनमा लाग्यौं भने बजार हामीलाई खोज्न आउँछ । कृषिउपज सङ्कलन केन्द्र निर्माण गरेर बजारको ग्यारेन्टी गर्ने गरी हामी अगाडि जाँदैछौं । गोरखापत्र दैनिकबाट साभार । 

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